Wolske on Immigration
Seems that my brother and I do not share the same feelings on the subject of immigration. Our family moved from Canada (Great White North, eh!) to Maryland in 1991. We went through the countless forms and fees ( to this day I have no idea how much it cost, I was 12), the interviews, the test, and finally, the oath ( I didn't say the part about renouncing other governments, I just let the rest of the room say that one out loud...). Either way, the process is by no means cheap or easy, but they will let you use a translator if need be (Yes, even for the final test...)
Now I don't know if Urban location has anything to do with our outlooks, I live in a neighborhood that is predominantly Black and Hispanic with a Mexican style market less than two blocks away, and my Brother lives in a nice quiet neighborhood in Gaithersburg, you would thing that we would be on the other side of the fence from where we are.
Maybe it is our jobs, I've worked in Manufacturing (Lots of immigrants there), Telemarketing (As long as you can speak english they'll hire you to read their scripts, even with a thick accent), even with Federal laws requiring employers to photocopy identification and SSC I've been around a lot of "undocumented workers".
Not to mention the fact that in Las Vegas you can drive to any Home Depot or Lowes and pick up a handfull of illegals to do your dirty work and pay them beans. (not to make any racial slurs here, that's just the phrase that popped into my head regarding the low cost of these workers). If I were new to this country, I'd head right down to the swap meet (almost all the vendors are mexican) and buy myself the proper paperwork, along with knock off clothes and cheap jewlery, not fair to the companies that are being knocked off, but they do it every day.
The problem, as I see it, and I do mean I see it is the misuse/abuse of our system. If a person (assumed to be legal, sorry ...documented/insert other liberal happy talk here) has gotten themselves on Section 8 assistance they can get a decent apartment for pennies on the dollar compared to what the other tenants pay, the government (state and federal) pick up the slack. That's great for someone who is down on their luck, the problem is this: Once a person is approved for section 8 status and they find themselves a home, there are very few inspections completed which leads to abuse, there may be 4 or 5 (maybe more) people living in this apartment, helping each other with the $60 a month for rent, and splitting the groceries. Sounds like a great roomate situation to me, but it is ILLEGAL. Also, immediate health comcerns cannot be refused at a hospital, what does that mean?? All I have to do is go to the emergency room (some of which have all of their intercom calling in spanish, makes you feel proud to be an American) to get anything fixed or checked out, and they will have to be able to find me to collect what I owe, if I'm undocumented they will never find me, STEALING IS ILLEGAL. also, it is a FELONY to put any other persons Social security number on any documentation, ILLEGAL..... The only way to explain these people is ILLEGAL.
We came to the states and our Father was working, paying taxes, the rest of the family got jobs (as age permitted) and we paid taxes, the home that we lived in was taxed, the state had it's taxes, the Federal governent had it's taxes. We went through a long and drawn out process to become citizens, we didn't run acros some filthy desert and occupy space and abuse the system we had sneaked ourselves into.
You want to talk about crime? There are may latino gangs, some of them have clever little names that gringos don't really know what they mean, some of them just work under the guise of pre-exhisting gangs. There is a small casino not far from my apartment that hosts a number of "Big Name' concerts (not really) and it is there, when the parking lot is full of people waiting in line, that people are getting shot at, or fights are breaking out. You just don't see that at predominantly white (oooh I said it) locations. I'm not going to get into all of society, becase this is about the immigration issue, but it seems like it all comes to parentin really. 'when you make it to America, be sure to make lots of babies, they will be covered by the government and they will have to let you stay' I'm sure that is part of the master plan that is being told throughout the land south of the border.
As for me, I'm with the minutemen. or motion activated turrets........ Come to Fabulous Las Vegas anytime for a dose of reality and I'll show you the problem.
posted by Big Red @ 6:14 AM
6 Comments
6 Comments:
Man, great use of "sneaked" in your post! You rock!
What's up! How about the gang riots in LA jails, between hispanic and black convicts? Lets allow these people to come here free, raise hell, and live off MY DIME!?!?!?! I don't think so! (sorry Chris) I don't feel like a hipocrit saying that immigration should change. Legal immigration is one thing, what these jokers are difining is something else altogether! Pay your dues, live here. Come here under false pretenses to live for free off a country that has it's own debt problems, no way. I hope my children can still get a good education, 'cause as it is looking they are giving more and more to the "needy" (ie illegal) children whose parents pay NOTHING toward public education, and are taking at every opportunity from OUR (yours and mine...) children while we pay more than ever in taxes. The liberals need to spend a week, or a month living where you live, and the same where I work. Then, maybe then they would stop crying about the injustices dealt to these people, and see once and for all that a parasite is a parasite, no matter what pretty colour you paint it. Gotta go, dragging on.....
whoa, did you guys even read my post?
first of all, I'm not a modern liberal aka Democrat. I may be a classic liberal, aka libertarian, in that I want the government involved as little as possible in my life. but seriously, don't lump me in with "liberals".
nowhere in my argument did I say that undocumented workers should get any kind of government assistance -- like Section 8 or whatever -- in fact I said specifically that they should NOT get healthcare or education unless they are 'documented' and paying taxes. one way of addressing this is by making healthcare and education an out-of-pocket expense, so people can't avoid paying. that's personal responsibility. I think that's what you and Matt want as well.
if any NON-CITIZENS are arrested and found gulity of a crime, they should be deported - no negotiation. again, I think it's important to differentiate between citizens and tax-paying (eligible for assistance) workers. Matt, I'm NOT saying that non-citizens should be put in US jails and be supported with US taxes -- just the opposite.
re: STEALING hospital services -- that's why everyone should have to pay upfront and have their own personal health insurance.
re: using other people's SSN -- yup, that's illegal, and I'm in favor of keeping it illegag. if any non-citizen is found doing it, deport them. I just don't think getting documentation to work should be so difficult to get (and I'd argue that the SSN system is a fraud anyway, so call the worker-card something else).
re: immigrants having lots of babies and having the government pay for it -- dude, you have to be kidding, you KNOW I think that's something that should not be allowed. I don't even think pregnancy should be covered under private health insurance, but I've covered that issue before...
I can't believe your tone when you talk of people of "running across a filthy desert" -- it that supposed to reflect badly on them? that they risked their lives to try and find a better one? do you think that our family going through "countless forms and fees" was some kind of great struggle? time to get some perspective, bro.
and then to hear that you didn't even say the complete oath -- you're setting yourself up to get deported, dude. I said the whole oath, renouncing the Canadian government and all. it wasn't easy, it was like leaving a little piece of me behind, but I did it and I don't regret it. so before you go waiving the flag around, decide which flag you're going to wave. and consider Canada's immigration policy if you still consider yourself Canadian.
I never said these immigrants were the victim of some grave injustices. I never said to give them anything for free. In fact, I think I said that I don't understand how they are claiming "rights" that don't exist... (did you read my post at all??) I do think we need to stop thinking of them as illegal if their only offense is residency and employment -- if they have committed fraud to get employment or other real crimes, then that should be dealt with and deportation would be a good start. what I would really like to do is get rid of the need for them to commit fraud by not making it a crime to work or to hire people that are not citizens. that's all.
I know you and Matt have worked side-by-side with a lot of undocumented workers. try to put aside the unfair treatment by your employers at the time, and tell me this: on the whole, aren't those workers good people who deserve the chance at a job to support their families? I know that your situation was bad, and that the specific employees might have been lazy and been supported by the supervisors/owners, but maybe think of somewhere other than M*T*ch. the call center or the prison... aren't those guys just as good/bad as your average non-immigrant?
when you start talking about motion activated turrets, it makes me very sad. these people are human beings.
As a matter of fact, I did read it! Making all those things private that are now covered by our taxes, hmmm, that sounds like we jsut need to switch our form of government all together.... We have taxes in place to cover (sort of) education, community spaces, and the American way of life in general. What we need to do is enforce our own rules and regulations, get off our asses and actually enforce them, wouldn't that be a change, they certainly enforce taxes, and if I can be audited and fined for screwing up my taxes I have to face that consequence, and if I have not come through the proper chanels to enter this country, I should face those consequences as well. I'm not saying that we struggled to become citizens, I'm saying we didn't just waltz into Maryland and pronounce ourselves legal residents. If you take away the assistance from the government (which is in place to help those who NEED it and are AMERICANS) than you will bring the level of poverty and crime to that of the countries these people are leaving. If their countries are so bad that so many people want to come here, I've got an idea for them, take action, surely the thousands of "undocumented" folks who come to the southwestern U.S. could put their forces together and combat the problem instead of running away from it.As for the Oath, I just don't feel that the country I was born in should be renounced, I can't change where I was born, I will always have been born in Canada, it's nothing against the U.S.A., I was in a room of 1700 people repeating the oath, if they want to renounce their countires, let them. I just think instead of spending all this time on 'PLANS', the government should get those guys in the white vcans with the green stripe to do what they are paid to do. think I'll go to the hardware store and take a load to the INS office this afternoon, that would be fun!
Unfortunately you can't let go of the places or people you have worked with, and Matt and I have been exposed to that side of society a lot more than many people ever will be. I just don't think that changing anything about what services are available can help, THe government just needs to RTFM, look at the contracts people sign when they get assitance and enforce the words on the page, look at the laws regarding illegal aliens and enforce them, that's what I pay taxes for (the education and community services are a nice touch on the top).
It must look nice and pretty to purely look at teh politcal side and the numbers, but numbers aren't always real life. The next time I feel uncomfortable because of the ratio of Hispanics around me, I'll ask them what they think of those numbers. Oh wait, they won't understand me...... God Bless the U.S.A.!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/25/AR2006022501495.html
Please follow the link and note the name of the cities listed. This was the first article I clicked on when I googled "Minutemen illegal immigrants Maryland". I realize that you think we live in a panacea in our nice little neighborhood and you have the real world experience in "Sin City", but you might be surprised to see statistics on the population of our fair city and even our neighborhood.
I could comment for hours on the perspectives shared between these 4 blogs and present another angle, but I'll leave it at that. Bottom line--black and white isn't realistic in real life.
I read the article, Karen. Actually, it doesn't surprise me. I lived on the Shore, after all.
What I just cannot seem to get past is this: there is a huge difference between ILLEGAL immigration and immigration. It is safe to say that evryone who has commented thus far is here because someone somewhere emmigrated from another country. The question is method.
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